You can mix it in a spryer, just leave expansion room and don’t screw lid on tight. But mixing in bucket probably smart move if not use to using, and then pouring into sprayer. Still leave some expansion room. I like using a backpack sprayer because lid can be loose and faster.
Oh your saying leave lid loose as your spraying?
You know how if your pour a little peroxide on a cut, it kind of fizzes and bubbles up. Think same thing on a larger scale. You want to leave it some room to expand and not over pressurize or it will go POP. So say in a 4 gal back pack sprayer, I might put my percarbonate I will add it and 3 gallons of preferably warm water, not hot, which will help it dissolve better, mix it up good and then just leave lid slightly loose. so excess pressure can escape, and go to work.
Makes perfect sense to me! On a sidenote I did a dumb thing today lol I hesitated before I took this job as I had a feeling it was going to be a nightmare! And of course I was right. Customer has three layers of solid stain
on this deck. Basically they applied three layers over a few years and this is what I got. The first pictures before I started and the second picture is after several hours of wand work. Used 8 ounces of sodium hydroxide to start and then I ended up going back over it with 10 ounces and basically got the same result. I should have walked away from this one but I guess you learn.
What are your thoughts? I have to stay in it but the good thing is they want a solid stain again so I’m thinking about calling it quits on washing it and hit it with a belt sander to smooth things out.
Just a couple of tidbits, I don’t know if would have worked or not.
- If your dwell time was like 15 minutes, you need to increase it a lot like maybe 30 and keep it misted so it doesn’t dry. If you use 8oz/gal and it isn’t working I would go to 12 before I did 10.
- Multiple layers are a pain, no two things about it.
- If you are thinking about letting it dry and sanding it out, think about renting a random orbital floor sander. It is pretty fast but you have to set all the nails/screws below the surface or it will shred the paper. I pay about $80 per rental for the unit/sandpaper/pad. If it is in bad shape don’t even think about 80 grit, hit with 60 off the rip.
- I warned you about that deck, that it appeared that they recoated the deck at least once when I blew up those pics.
- some people use other products too, like a butyl boost to remove bad coatings.
maybe @MDA1775 will chime in and tell you what he thinks. He is a wood expert.
I may rent the orbital. I was actually just looking at them. I should have just walked man I know. Lesson learned! From now on my first question will be “how many layers of stain are on it”? And I may just end up refusing solid stain jobs all together.
Well the bright side is you learned something.
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On the bright side, you weren’t on your hands and knees for hours using a diamabrush. My first foray into wood restoration was with a double layer of deckover, what a nightmare that was.
I forgot to add, if you rent the random orbital floor sander, go cross grain with sander. You can always go with higher grit later on and go with the grain to smooth it out so to speak. Don’t go over 80 grit. Looks like you don’t have to get under the rails, that is a big, big plus.
An osborn brush is a great tool as well, if you don’t have one add it to your inventory. Use it with a variable speed grinder, it is fantastic on ballusters/spindles.
10-4 Racer
Do you think I should rent the orbital sander over just using a belt sander to smooth down that solid stain? Since I’m going back over it with a solid I don’t think it’s necessary to get all of the stain off but just smoothed out.
My .02, and worth everything you paid for it. I’m a side hustler, not a full timer, but I fret over my workmanship.
What did you promise the customer? Just a paint job (a film forming covering), or that you would strip it bare and put a solid covering over it? The difference, to me, is what the end result and expectation should be.
Just repainting (putting an approved film forming covering on the deck) is nothing more than sanding off bubbling and peeling paint, and repainting. You feather out the edges on the bare spots to make it blend better. Scuff up the good paint (stuff that is still adhereing to the wood) so that the next coat adheres to the underlying coat.
Stripping and applying a film former, to me, has the expectation that you won’t see the old layer or where old layers were recoated providing that janky looking surface that previously exsisted. It looks like a new old deck. The before and after’s pop, because it is a drastic difference.
THese are two very distinct things, and require extemely diffferent pricing points. A simple prep and repaint is gravy work (to me). Once again, to me, it will never look that good and it will fail.
In all honesty, a couple of hours (even a workday) of extra sanding is worth a happy customer. I try to over deliver, even if I make less an hour than I optimally want. Once again, I am a solo operator and I don’t do this to make ends meet, so the people running crews or have to hustle from job to job may have a different take. Not to sound wishy washy, if they didn’t pay for the service and were expecting champagne on a beer budget, you get what you get. They don’t like it too bad, next time pay for the full monty. Having said that, I explain my processes in detail to my customers and they get a several page estimate saying the same things again. Every single estimate has the same language in it, that I do not guarantee/warranty any paint or stain, only my workmanship. I also include what the majority of manufacturers recommend, yearly cleanings and maintenance coats. To me, that is their way out of their warranties, and it is cheesy lawyer speak.
I am not a wood guru. I am sure you will get other feedback, but that is mine.
Edit: I also try to help customers out sometimes, and that always seems to get me in trouble. I just asked the wood guru about a job I am estimating where they want me to strip, but not recoat the deck. I asked his feedback because I was unsure of what I wanted to do and where my pricepoint should be at with this.
Sounds good and thanks for your input! If I go ahead and rent the orbital sander, How difficult is it to use? I’ve never actually used one. I’ll be going over this deck with a solid again so like you said I could even get by with the belt sander and just hit with 60 grit each board lightly to smooth out the existing stain.
Orbital sander is easy to use, especially if you ever used a floor buffer in the military back in the day. Sodium percarbonate is not going to touch what you have there. I’d go with sodium hydroxide coat it and lay painters plastic on and leave it there for a day, that will give it time to work without drying out. Then PW and see where you are with regards to sanding.
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Never thought about the plastic that’s a good idea. Sodium Hydroxide won’t harm the wood in the bare spots?
You should be wetting the wood to keep the Hydroxide on the surface, most strippers are made with S hydroxide in some quantity or another.
10-4. Yes, I always drench the wood first.
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Because I know you do a lot of decks I have to ask you. What does your pricing look like to clean, strip and stain? I just really want to see where my pricing is compared to yours. And where are you located?
It all depends on your market. If you are curious, google national average, I think it varies from 2.50 -4.50 the last time I looked. I would love to get 4.50 a sq ft, but that isn’t happening in my market.
I wouldn’t think just in terms of sq ft. Things like Double decks, meaning one in front and one in back, means more time. I can’t finish both on the same day becasue the homeowner can’t acces their home. You can charge more for those, tell them why they seem to understand it. You may want to price multiple level decks, or decks on the second floor, differently than a deck 1 foot off the ground. you are going to be slower because you have ladders/scaffold/pics to set. I’m slow at sanding spindles and bandboards on a ladder, having a plank is so much nicer.
I’m interested to hear if mark is just pure sq ft and that is all (besides board replacement fees and other work that is addition to strip and stain).
Here is what I’m looking at this week. It’s 160 Sqft. One coat of paint currently on it and I’m going to be refinishing it in a solid gray stain. Going to see how the Sodium Hydroxide does on it with a 15 min dwell time and if not, I’ll try the method of covering with painters plastic overnight.
Customer said he will pop any nails back down and sand where needed for prep. I’m thinking $3.25/sqft materials included.
- Did you test the surface with denatured alcohol first?
- Where did you come up with this 15 min dwell time for a strip job?
- Customers don’t always do what they are supposed to, and counter sinkng nails requires a hammer and a nail set, if it is nails. Screws often snap when counter sinking and you either have to put another screw in, and sometimes you use pliers to remove the old screw. I try to match the new screw color to the old screw color.
- setting screws/nails in older 2x2 spindles will undoubtedly split a spindle or baluster, so be careful with that.
have fun. If you could get 18 a sq ft I wouldn’t begrudge you. You made an agreement with a customer.
