Roof Pump - Please tell me what I have wrong

[bubbad2u]

Ok, this is a long story, but I am at my ropes end here. Please, please can someone help me figure why I am having so much trouble with my 12 volt pump.

First off, about 2 years ago I ordered the pump in a box 7 gpm with accumulator set up from Pressuretek.

Hooked it up and it seemed to cycle a lot, not blowing fuses but just every 10 seconds it would cycle, figure it was a leak somewhere. Cleaned a few cedar buildings with it and flushed it out and put it away for the winter.

Had a roof job last fall, the pump hadn’t been out in over a year. Set it up and realized the accumulator had a broken bladder. Bought a new accumulator, but the pump still never seemed to work right. As soon as you would pull the trigger it would switch on. The accumulator (2 gallon size) really did nothing. I tried different pressure settings, all kinds of fiddling, but it never really worked like I thought it should. And it blew about 10 fuses over the course of the job.

Fast forward to this spring, first job of the spring. I go to use the pump to post treat a driveway and it was dead.

So I figured, ok that pump was always a problem. And truthfully maybe I had somethings wrong. Maybe my wire was too small, switch too weak, etc.

So I bought a new Northstar 7gpm on recommendation of some guys on RCIA. The thought was these don’t need the accumulator because of the pressure switch they have. So I hook it up and when you pull the trigger it just short cycles. About 10 seconds, blew the fuse. So I am going for beefed up wiring.

Now I have a battery with terminal lugs, about 3 feet of #8 wire, to a 120 volt 50amp switch, straight to the pump. Pull the trigger it runs for 2-3 seconds and blows the fuse. I just don’t get what I have wrong. I put a full charge on the battery, 200 of kukri hose, I open the ball valve with no fitting so it is not restricted, blown fuse.

Please tell me what I have wrong. I need to clean some roofs and driveways. It doesn’t seem like it should be so sensitive. What do you guys think?

I’ll put some pictures in the next post.

Thanks for the help.

Joe

[bubbad2u]

!

[bubbad2u]

Thank you. I had heard of that before but I could never find an explanation of how to do it. I searched the RCIA forums again and saw Bruce’s video is up again. So I watched and took some notes. I’ll pick up the parts and give it a try tomorrow. Thanks

Joe

[Racer]

Don’t bother. You’ve got something else going on. I’ve got 5 - 12v been running for years and have never blown a fuse. They’re basically plug and play simple. Take your pump and set next to battery and just hook wires straight to terminals. I guarantee you it will work. And then proceed from there. Either something is grounding or mis-wired.

Make sure your water flow is going right direction, could be causing it to over heat. But if it’s blowing in a few seconds, then it’s in your electrical or you just got a bad one.

[bubbad2u]

Yea, I understand what your saying and that was my thinking too.

I have tried 3 different switches, a 20 amp light switch, a 30 amp fan switch and now a 50 amp 12 volt switch. What you see in the picture is it. I am 3 feet from the battery running through nothing but the switch. I can take that out and just wire nut it together, but I don’t really think that matters.

Water is running the right way and I really don’t think it is an overheat problem. With the Devlan it was over heating. It was warm to the touch, so I can see that causing the problem. This pump has never run more than 10 seconds without blowing, it never can heat up.

I could order a new pump, but if I can’t put my finger on a solution I just think I will never have confidence in it. Every time I am working I will just be waiting for it to stop working.

I am just really frustrated. It makes no sense to me.

I appreciate the suggestion and I will try it, but I don’t see even if it works what I should change.

Joe

[Racer]

I’ve got 3-4 different switches, one being the NT one with the alligator clips that came with one of the pumps about 3 years ago. My main two are just plain old HD light switches in a water proof switch box. Using the same switch 3 years later.

Heck, if you want - throw it all in a box and send it to me, I get it setup for you.

[bubbad2u]

Haha. I appreciate that.

No, I want to figure out the problem. It is just so simple that it is really pissing me off.

• and - how hard is that? I have the same switch box and light switch etc. No matter what I can’t get it to work. I keep thinking I have done something really dumb and I just don’t realize it. But at this point I can’t figure what that is.

Joe

[Innocentbystander]

Nothing for nothing, but your problem is probably your wiring. I see wire nuts on stranded wire instead of soldered connections and heat shrink, wire hooked to batteries without ring terminals, exposed toggle switch and what looks like electrical solid wire.

[bubbad2u]

I realize it looks sloppy at the moment. I was trying to fool with it before it got dark tonight.

I had the stranded run through butt connectors and heat shrink, exposed toggle switch is the new switch I was trying tonight.

But I hear what you are saying as soon as I can get it working I’ll clean it up.

[Racer]

Just start from the beginning. Wire it direct to battery first. just have enough extra to tie your switch in later. Just got to eliminate the variables till you figure out problem. Good luck, let us know how it goes.

[bubbad2u]

Will do, thanks for taking a look

[Infinity]

Just checking: what size fuse are you running?

[bubbad2u]

30 amp in the Fatboy

25 amp in the Northstar

[bubbad2u]

Update: I took everything off the pump (all switches and wires) and hooked the pump up sitting it right next to the battery.

When I connected the leads the pump turned on and pressurized the hose (took about 3 seconds since the hose was still full from yesterday) but it was short cycling. pulled the trigger on the gun, ran for 1 second and blew the fuse. New fuse, ran for 2 seconds, blew the fuse.

Only thing I can figure is the pump has a problem.
I ordered a devlan pump this afternoon and went to buy some new wire and connectors. Hopefully it will be in a the start of the week and I’ll keep you guys updated.

Thanks again for the help.

Joe

[Racer]

Why not just carry back to NT and trade it in. It’s brand new.

[bubbad2u]

I did carry it back, not available in the store though, so they needed to ship me another one.

Just ordered the Devlan instead, the one I had before worked ok and I think I could have done a better job installing it. So hopefully if I get this one hooked up properly it will work for me.

On the first one the accumulator wasn’t working right. I just didn’t realize it because I didn’t know any better. Now I have a good tank and I believe it is set properly.

I had the first one hooked up with 14 ga wire. Bought some more 10ga today and I think that will help.

I am also toying with the idea of using the solenoid instead of the relay and maybe replacing the fuse with a 30 amp circuit breaker with auto reset. That way if I am on a roof and the fuse blows I can just wait and let it reset.

I don’t know, just some ideas I am thinking about. I’ll be glad to get it finished and working I have already wasted a day goofing with it. Hopefully soon, on the bright side I am learning what not to do.

[Racer]

Which Delevan? The FB?

[bubbad2u]

Yes, FB2 - 7870

[bubbad2u]

Just wanted to give an update
New pump came in last Thursday, I also bought a toolbox similar to the one Racer shows in his video.

I was originally going to put the battery and accumulator tank in the tool box but I changed my mind and put them in the corner of the trailer under the toolbox. I put the charger in the toolbox and hard wired it into the battery.

I redid all the electrical 10 ga wire with butt connectors and shrink tubing, but I left a couple connections with out the shrink tubing until I decide if I am going to use the solenoid.

I bought the solenoid but I haven’t installed it yet. I mounted everything including the mixing valve that I copied from Frank. Spent this afternoon testing everything and working on the settings for the mixing valve.

So far I have run the pump for about 60 minutes, no more than probably 3 minutes at a time. I haven’t blown any fuses and have had no cycling problems.

And the accumulator tank is good for about 4 - 1 second sprays before the pump kicks back on.

I haven’t checked my flow yet without a nozzle but through all my hose and a fan tip I did almost 4 gpm, shooting 40+ feet.

So far I am really happy and I have a couple roofs coming up in the nest two weeks to give it a good test on. I also have plenty of room to mount a 5.5 or 3 gpm pumps in there also for small volume work.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions. Here are a couple pictures of where I am so far (still have a couple hours of work left, a little electrical to dress up) If you see anything I need to change let me know.

Joe

[bubbad2u]