Steve I am going to call you in a couple of hours from now so we can discuss this a little further to connect some dots. To hard to do on the net because peoples minds are made up here and it doesn’t matter what’s typed. I will answer your above quote because you asked.
1-first off after some ugly post on the net, it has been proven that OC did contact the PWNA. I know you saw that but of course it was disputed.
2-the contact person was established as Jen Voss- which you know that. Not her boss which I’m sure she’s isn’t appreciating the fact that you guys went around her to her boss. This is where we as an Industry begin losing the respect to the People of power or the establishment or however you want to phrase that. Simply put…a connection for this Industry lost
3-Those BMP’s had somethings to strict in there which is where I believe Robert zoned in on. BMP’s for municipalities tend to be a bit suffocating. Robert also was trying to get this part to be an open session for the contractors…hence reason why he posted this on PWI. This I’m going to discuss with Robert. Bad bad idea. I know that because I posted on PWI about the Vegas event and look what happened.
Look again at the above^^^
The disconnect is you guys disregarded the chain of command here with OC because of your frenzy that those BMP’s Robert posted were his and not there’s. You never gave anyone an opportunity to explain this… So you killed this opportunity for tue contractors to be able to voice their opinions to these individuals which is what Robert was trying to do.
That to me is the disconnect and coming from a past life where connecting with others was paramount in achieving Legitimate goals… We as an industry lost out here if only you guys would listen to the facts before you went into your frenzy.
John if one of your guys screws up and damages something on site who would the customer call you or the employee. the bottom line is the boss is who makes the decisions not the subordinates. That is why Mr Boon was contacted by continuing to argue when the pwna has been proven to be at fault is ridiculous it just makes you look foolish. Look around you John none of the other pwna mouth pieces are commenting.
Sorry Greg…I dont think the majority buy that to jump over a contact like this which makes Scotts timing shady at best. Scotts saying he went to the boss because he was going to write an article… Your saying Greg that when guys screw up you go to the boss. So is Scott lying then as to why he went directly to the boss here?
Personally I could care less if Scotts lying here or not. He was looking for a desired result and he got it.
As for the PWNA members not responding here…they dont have to. Most are out working anyway.
What the majority don’t buy is lying backstabbing underhanded manipulating to achieve your desired result. Robert got caught lying how is that anyone else’s fault.
This maybe answered on the net because the emails are in hand. Personally Greg I’m going to advise Robert to let this go because its done. I’ll explain this one last time to you and then I’m calling Steven Buttons to talk shop. Jackie the PWNA ED was contacted about the OC. She in turn notified a few including Robert since he’s the premier expert on Enviro anything. He in turn now got dialoge with Jen Voss. They wanted a workshop… Are you following so far. Redline an answer yes here if you can.
Robert was OK with that. Because he is experienced in this he asked the Million dollar question. Can he see there BMP’s. Keep in mind these are there BMP’s. Let me know if your following me up to this point.
BMP’s are generally strict because they have to follow EPA guidelines and we all know how strict that can be. Robert see’s a couple that are to strict and there’s room here to lower them enough where Contractors would still be compliant under EPA guidelines—Are you following me here.
OC wants to keep there strict Guidelines intact but Robert has convinced them to consider an open discussion amongst contractors. He also submitted a couple of changes that would make just a smidgeon of these BMP’s less strict. Nothing is agreed yet but the open discussion was going to appear it was going to happen for guys like yourself and many others in this Industry.
Then came Scott Stone… You now know the rest of the story.
To me its about cracking these Powers to be and let us the Powerwashers have some influence. That’s my only care in here. So yes this is disappointing but to you and some other it maybe a hollow victory. You beat down your fellow contractors which I don’t expect you to understand as to why that is.
I was contacted by Robert Hinderliter on 5/17/14 and asked by him to conduct an interview and write an article based on his answers so that he could share his side of the story. He wanted to respond somewhere other than the industry bulletin boards. The information in the piece was based solely on answers given in that interview (as I stated in the actual article) and was posted on our website. It is IMPORTANT to note that this piece was not requested, nor paid for by the PWNA. It was not paid for by Robert Hinderliter either.
I contacted OC representative Jenna Voss – who is the representative that Robert Hinderliter worked with and who initially contacted the PWNA – on the morning of May 21. We had a brief conversation, and the questions I asked were corroborated: Did OC contact the PWNA? (Yes.) Did the PWNA write Orange County’s BMPs? (No.) What were they were looking for during the public comment period? (Primarily, to make sure they were clear and easy to understand.) On this question she elaborated, adding that sometimes in an attempt to get more specific, things actually get more complicated. I took this to mean that the BMPs that Robert posted were long, as some people had already commented online that they were hard to understand. She also emphasized that industry members needed to understand that they had little to no control over changing certain aspects of the BMPs that may be considered acceptable in other parts of the country because California fell under a different set of rules. She continued by explaining that if people made suggestions that had to do with the specific requirements and regulations, they likely could not do much about them.
Since the article was published two days ago, OC Stormwater Program Chief Richard Boon has said that the information presented by Robert Hinderlter has “badly misrepresented the intentions and actions of a local public agency.” They also said they do not plan to change their BMPs, which are detailed in BMP Fact Sheet IC24. Richard Boon is Jenna Voss’s boss and I have corroborated that he does not plan to change the original BMPs.
However, I now have a number of questions. Were Jenna and I inadvertently discussing different documents? Why did she simply not tell me there was no public comment period when I asked? Why did she elaborate about the document changes being long and harder to understand? And lastly, why would Robert contact me and ask me to write an article based on lies, especially knowing that the UAMCC leaders would be going through it with fine toothed comb?
I have made an official request using the Freedom of Information Act to try to figure out whether this was a blatant lie, a miscommunication, or perhaps a combination of both. The OC department has 30 days to get me the information, and I will also need some time to sift through it – and possibly conduct follow up. Believe me, I want to know the truth in this situation as much or possibly more than all of you. I will not, however, commenting further at this time.
The peoples republic of California. News flash they don’t care one itsy bit about a pressure washer. The powers that be they federal govt, EPA, etc the storm water chief is not losing an ounce of sleep or wasting a smidge of energy worrying about pw
Hey Steve-If you care to comment, its fine with me if you want to tell the guys here what you thought about our call.
My thoughts are concurrent with yours that there is a philosophical difference over 1 important issue within this Industry thats divided the 2 non profit orgs. We did agree on that. The part that you know that bothers me the most is this door of opportunity was shut. Thats my sole point of why this was a bad/sad day for Industry advancement.
On a brighter note… I am so glad the PWRA stays out of this political junk. One of the reasons I belong to the PWRA is because it balances my involvement with the other org. which I enjoy as well;)
Nothing much to say John, I appreciated the opportunity to talk… The issue of different philosophies that I brought up is simple, I have an ‘inclusive’ view on how to deal with BMPs in local areas - you would like to get everything squared away behind the scenes before involving others, because it slows or halts the process.
I said I would not respond further, but since I am being “asked” by the UAMCC president whether or not I put the document together, I DID NOT. I had not seen, nor even heard about, the document until it was posted online last week. Besides, as a designer, there are some small details in the way the document was laid out that drove me crazy when reading through it. (Fingernails on a chalkboard effect.)
I am hoping the documentation I’ve requested will clarify where the laid out document originated.
For what it’s worth Allison, I’m sorry that you were caught up in terrible situation. The collateral damage to this seems to be wide.
I find that the excuses, semantics, spiting of hairs, finger pointing, refusal to accept the truth, deny-ability of knowledge, and covering of butts…to be disturbingly amusing…and not in a humorous way.
The “Real” question here is…Why hasn’t the PWNA released a statement about this? It’s their reputation that is shot now with AHJ’s?
Why hasn’t Robert released a statement explaining his actions? Or at the very least an apology.
I hope that your investigation at least clears your reputation in all this Allison…I really do.
What I said about that is what I told Robert. He should stick with the PWNA members and work with them on these issues. He should no longer include any other group and he needs to stop posting on PWI what he is doing to involve them because look what happen.
So yes Robert should work with PWNA members only at this time unless the UAMCC people can learn to work with him…and we know that’s a dead issue because Ron wants Robert…Gone!
Yea right Guy that Roberts going to apologies. You’ll see that either:
A-when Scott Stone apologies for jumping over the contacts head and then causing this to collapse for the contractors to voice there opinions in those open sessions which were being worked on.
B- Ron takes that negative story about the PWNA down on your org’s webpage where you guys are all gloating like kids in a candy store. Extremely childish and unprofessional to say the least.
But you guys won’t do that-- and Robert thinks what he did was right.
Maybe since you were man enough to apologize to Allision you should talk to your President and get a public apology since he is suggesting on the Net that Allision did some photoshopping with those BMP’s. What a joke with him
John, no one jumped a chain of command. I was directed to Mr Boon also. He is the head of the department. Who cares what Ron does? This is not a PWI versus the PWNA war. This is about Robert lying and falsifying what was going on in OC. You seem to overlook that. You are absolutely correct in the fact that he needs to represent only PWNA members. If he did only that then his actions and lies would only effect the few members in it. However, he seems bent on destroying all contractors, not just PWN@ members. You notice that you are the sole person taking up for him? Maybe the others have seen the light finally. For what it is worth, I am not a UAMCC member and have not signed onto that forum or the PWI in about a year. My views are only my own. It is self preservation to fight against the wrong doings of others that are bent on the destruction of an industry.
William I appreciate your honest responses. Maybe the UAMCC guys should listen to what you said here and agree with it as far as Robert just reporting to PWNA members alone… Some of those guys affectionally call you “The General” but they won’t heed to your advice either.
As for the PWNA members views on this. I talked by phone to around 15-20 of them just the last few days. This part I don’t like because even though my business model allows me to be on my I-pad continuously I don’t have enough time in the day to field complaints… But for these guys I talked to all of them and listened to their concerns.
Being a level headed person(you may disagree with this) but I am taking Guy Blackmons advice he gave to many which is to get to the bottom of this. So I am doing my due diligence as a few others are. By the time where done we’ll have many answers and I’ll ask Thad if I can show my findings here as I will on other industry boards.
When done I should know what the true intentions were on both sides. I can add this as well… It won’t be pretty but the truth needs to come out.
I don’t think you have a grasp of what I said except that Robert needs to represent the pwna only. Unfortunately, his actions harm every contractor, not just your members
