After a hiatus from Vegas, it looks like the Hinderliters and the PWN@ are back to breaking the promise the PWN@ made to not shop BMP’s. Glad I don’t live in Orange County California. Maybe their members will see the light one day.
what are bmp
Best management practices.
They dictate what you can and can’t do. I’ve got a bmp certificate for landscaping, that’s required around by me.
Also what you have to do, sorry. I think those bmp’s have to do with runoff and stuff like that.
Hey Innocent, please explain.
I sat through Robert Hinderliter’s environmental class in the last PWNA conference in Orlando and he approached the subject of BMPs from a proactive standpoint. His intentions were to be a part of legislation which is already being passed down in the most restricted areas (Cali, Ft Worth, etc…). He believes creating BMPs that are plausible for the environmentally conscious as well as for the Industry is the right way to go… as opposed to being issued a piece of legislation that isn’t plausible by some politician who has no insight on the industry. That makes sense to me… how do you see things?
Fort Worth had some of the most restrictive BMP’s because Robert wrote them. They have since changed them to be more user friendly. Robert writes restrictive BMP’s and has convinced many that hot water is an emulsifier. He offers his services as a paid consultant to cities to write BMP’s, promoting himself as the PWN@ spokesman. For awhile he was promoting himself as the UAMCC enviro representative when he was not only not a member but had been banned from it. Keep in mind he makes/made is living selling reclaim equipment. The PWN@ promised to never shop the BMP’s but changed their minds. Money maker on their part. Sell your consulting services to the cities, sell your equipment to the contractors. Fund it all from the contractor dues. Quite a gig they have going. I can think of very few other people who have single handedly done more to destroy the livelihood of contractors. He believes we are cosmetic cleaners and has forced that terminology into BMP’s.
He came to my state a few years ago to a similar city BMP meeting. He set up his reclaim equipment in the parking lot and used a megaphone to call to the contractors who were leaving.
William thanks for giving us the straight scope on this!!
I understand your perspective, there are a few things I remember a bit differently.
I do recall Robert mentioning that the one thing he wishes he could change was the terminology “cosmetic cleaning”. He did take responsibility for that term coined ages ago and said he wished it was never phrased that way. Safety and hygiene would have been the preferred alternatives if memory serves correctly.
I also recall him mentioning that water over 110 degrees is classified as an emulsifier. Who classified this (Robert or the EPA i don’t recall) but he was teaching this from the angle of what is/isn’t acceptable discharge into storm drains. (If the water is over 110 degrees and will release oil from a surface, treat it like soapy water and don’t flush straight into storm drains or you can violate the CWA of 1972).
I agree with what you’re saying regarding developing regulations and selling the necessary equipment for profit and how it can be a sleazy operation if done purely for those intentions.
The class I attended just wasn’t a sales pitch or a fear mongering session. He described some of the difficulties in particular areas of the country and went over the BMPs he developed to guide technicians into compliance. Not all of the points he addressed led to the need for reclamation. Many of the practices were common sense practices that could be implemented rather easily by just changing the approach taken by many cleaners. Specifically, cleaning debris and oil from areas before washing. Rinse sideways into grass and landscaping as opposed to downward to the street. Don’t rinse away dirt, leaves, trash, etc… into storm drains. Filter dirt, oil and debris from any water that will head into storm drains.
My perception of Robert’s course offering was one of education, personal responsibility and accountability for our environmental impact.
And you can keep your medical plan & Doctor…the irs only wants to help…No one is recording cell phone conversations or tracking your emails…sound familiar?
Randolph, before you draw conclusions you may want to do some fact checking first.
#1…The PWNA lied about not shopping BMP’s…Period.
#2…None of the PWNA Members (Except Those involved) knew what Mr Hinderliner was doing…Really? Why?
#3…None of the affected Contractors in the Orange County area were notified, consulted, briefed, or even asked their opinion or input…Really? Why Not? If this was done for the benefit of our Industry, why weren’t the people that make up the Industry included in this???
#4…Exterior Cleaning Contractors (Pressure Washers) are constantly being categorized as “Major Sources Of Pollution” and constantly linked to anything having to do with pollution by Mr. Hinderliner with the blessing of the PWNA…directly, indirectly, and/or behind closed doors…Again…WHY?
Here’s what Government Officials in Orange County will think the impact of our Industry is on the environment “If” this BMP passes…This is what Mr. Hinderliner & the PWNA says we do to our environment… Do you agree???
[B]"Targeted Constituents
Polluted Waste Water can have many adverse effects on plants, fish, animals and people.
Sediment can cloud the water and make it difficult or impossible for
aquatic plants to grown. Sediment also can destroy aquatic habitats.
Excess nutrients (including detergents) can cause algae blooms.
When algae die, they sink to the bottom and decompose in a
process that removes oxygen from the water. Fish and other aquatic
organisms can’t exist in water with low dissolved oxygen levels.
Bacteria and other pathogens can wash into swimming areas and create health hazards,
often making beach closures necessary.
Debris - plastic bags, six-pack rings, bottles, and cigarette butts - washed into
water-bodies can choke, suffocate, or disable aquatic life like ducks, fish, turtles,
and birds.
Hazardous wastes like insecticides, pesticides, paint, solvents, used motor oil,
and other auto fluids can poison aquatic life. Land animals and people can
become sick from eating diseased fish and shellfish or ingesting polluted water.
Polluted Waste Water can affect drinking water sources. This, in turn, can affect human health
and increase drinking water treatment costs.
Polluted runoff has caused thousands of water bodies nationwide to become impaired –
meaning that they do not meet state water quality standards. This runoff threatens our health
and costs our communities money. Not only will requiring pollution sources to take action make
our waters safer and healthier, but it will also help cities and towns that are financially struggling
to meet current clean water requirements."[/B]
I could go on and on…but I already have the facts…Draw your on conclusion.
If you read that really fast…see if this jumps out at ya…
“, but it will also help cities and towns that are financially struggling to meet current clean water requirements.”
Follow the money
Keep it up Guy and we will have them stalking us 
In all seriousness, do your own research and see where the money trail goes.
I don’t know how anyone with half a brain can think the orange county bmp’s are reasonable
Hey Guy, thanks for the reply. I appreciate your opinion and understand your frustration with this issue. You made many political references regarding lies and half-truths we have been bilked into and I know where you’re coming from. I understand your perspective.
I would like to respond to a few of the items you listed.
1. I have read statements from the PWNA that say they wont shop BMP's,[B] with on caveat[/B].... Unless the County or jurisdiction is unreasonable or over-reaching. To me, there is no place this applies more than Orange County, CA. Here's one such link:
[PWNA - BMPs: What they are and what they are not. A letter from Mike Hilborn, E.D.](http://www.propowerwash.com/board/upload/showthread.php?22577-PWNA-BMPs-What-they-are-and-what-they-are-not-A-letter-from-Mike-Hilborn-E-D)
2. I knew this was coming because we were told it was in the works when i attended the PWNA conference in October.
3. I can't speak much on the issue of why local cleaners weren't consulted. My only response is that i have read statements released as far back as 2011 regarding this issue and they are currently holding a public comment session. Should they have done more, maybe? I don't know the answer on this one.
4. I keep reading the copied statement from above addressing pollution and I see proven facts, not an acceptance of blame. We've all seen the marine animals and birds tangled in 6-pack plastic, hasn't it been proven that phosphates choke out marine life by promoting algae growth? I know when i see contaminants (trash, sticks, leaves, dirty wash water, etc) being sprayed into storm drains that it is harmful to the waterways here in Florida. It may not be enough to measure long term damage to marine ecosystems today but if it isn't addressed today, what will it be like in 10 years? 20? 50?
The EPA is the driving force behind BMP development in many localities. Here's a few links promoting implementation of BMPs and potential contaminants:
[EPA - Stormwater Menu of BMPs](http://cfpub.epa.gov/npdes/stormwater/menuofbmps/index.cfm?action=min_measure&min_measure_id=6)
http://epa.gov/npdes/pubs/potmunpoll.pdf
I will return to my original statement that Robert's class was an effort to educate and stimulate our senses of personal responsibility with proper disposal of our runoff by common sense practices, not expensive equipment investments. I don't personally know Robert but after attending his class I do have respect for him and his position in the Industry.
I suppose we will have to agree to disagree on his motivesWhere does the “Caveat” come into play? How do you know what applies in OC CA. Please explain?
Then you seem to be the only one that has acknowledged this publicly.
Of course not, no one does. This is just what the PWNA does, always have.
Please provide proven facts of our Industry (As a whole) being responsible for 6 pack rings tangled in Marine animals, birds, etc…
Please provide proven facts of our Industry being responsible for phosphate contamination that has chocked out marine life & promoted algae growth.
You see trash being sprayed in storm drains? By who? Did you do anything about this?
I can show you how to dig a pond with a shovel…or sell you a backhoe…Yes, I agree to disagree.
What are your thoughts on septic systems? Farm runoff? Rain events? The impact of just one of these examples pales (Far & Wide) in comparison to any imagined impact our Industry has on the environment…Yet here we are.
Thanks for an engaging conversation Guy. We’re not going to agree on this topic but I respect your opinions. Have a great night!
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God I love to wake up and read how many false allegations someone can make in one post.
I agree. Think of all of the tens of thousands of cars that leak oil and leave rubber on the road ways on a minute by minute basis. Where does it all go? Also, Here in salt lake city we store and treat most of our runoff from 5 or 6 canyons that run into the valley. Because of that your dog isn’t allowed in the canyon because it might do it’s duty and it may eventually run into the stream. Just imagine though the possible disease and other contaminants that may run down the hill from an animal carcass or other living diseased animals that we have no control over. I think nature is a lot “smarter” than anyone gives credit for. Bottom line is regulation hurts everyone in an industry except for the ones making their money pointing fingers.
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Chris, I agree with your post…but Regulation is not a bad thing, it’s needed, but it needs to be sane, economically sustainable Regulation…Not over regulation.
I want clean water for my children, grand children, etc… everyone here does…but how far and above does this need to go before it shuts peoples businesses down? And exactly what impact does our Industry have to do with this? Why are we perceived as having this huge impact on the environment? 6 pack rings around birds & mammals? Algae Blooms? 02 depletion in water?..We Do This???..I don’t think so.
So why are we being singled out?
I find it funny that the the people that say they care so much for the environment buy goods on a daily basis from countries that dump untreated human & Industrial waste directly into rivers & oceans.
