So we signed up with ADP to do our payroll and get us workmen’s comp coverage then they drop us saying they don’t cover what we do.
I call again to see if they can provide it by another company, but nobody covers pressure washing for ADP.
So I contact the Florida Insurance agent association, talk to a lawyer that said that you can’t touch a roof unless you’re a certified roofer.
So I contact another company that quoted me payroll and WC and he checks with a few companies but once they found out we do Roofs they rescinded their proposals. (I deleted photos online, but not the reviews, I think I may have to make a public announcement).
I’m willing to stop doing roofs to cover our guys, because then we can do commercial stuff, I have a plaza waiting on me to join Code Compliance to do work but I know I need WC.
Question, does anybody know how to go about this? You can PM me if you’d like.
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How many employees do you have?
So a legal, but shady way around this is that if your a sole proprietor then you don’t need workman’s comp for yourself by state law, companies that your working for may still require it. So what would I do if you dont want to give up roof cleaning.
Start a separate entity that is a sole proprietorship “DBA” that is similar to your already established business name but you only do roof cleaning. Buy seperate general liability insurance, and seperate bank acct. When your doing roofs have checks or payment made out to the other company. Or if roofs aren’t generating you a crap ton of $$ just let them go. You could even go as far as having a redirect from any roof cleaning content on your current website go to your other business name site. Seems crazy, corporations do this kind of shit all the time.
obviously you would be the only one allowed to go on the roof
I’ve thought about starting another company to do roofs, but right now I’m fine giving them up for workmen’s comp. What’s hurts is the fact that I Did roofs and now I may not be able to get WC.
Someone told me to contact the state, that’s how they are covered even for roofs.
I’ll contact the state WC office tomorrow.
https://www.myfloridacfo.com/division/wc/
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When advice is started by saying its shady, it’s probably best not to say it.
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I guess I shouldn’t have stated shady…but starting a separate business for a specialized service is very common, if not done right then can come across shady to a customer. How do you deal with WC in regards to roof cleaning?
@Innocentbystander or are you able to get coverage some other way? Do you carry WC under code 5551 or just 9014
I don’t offer roof cleaning but we are on roofs for gutter cleaning. WC is based on payroll. Roughly 20%of my payroll is under high risk. Varies on what payroll is entered by accountant every Thursday.
Do you know what code working in heights is under?
wc code 9014 does not cover anything above one story.
So I contacted the state Workmen’s comp division, they gave me the number to the Florida Workmen’s Comp Joint Underwriters Association (941) 378-7400, which in turn told me to go to their website and search for a Local Agent:
http://fwcjua.com/Locator
Contacted one, waiting on her proposals, plus I contacted our original company we turned down when we went with ADP. He gave me a proposal and I’m waiting on another one from him.
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As an insurance agent, I feel this suggestion is filled with issues.
The first that comes to mind is the general liability double premium and double deductible (if one), and what effectively could turn one claim into what appears to be two claims.
The first thing that’s asked for in a general liability lawsuit (or before) is your insurance information. As a sole prop, you have two policies in this situation and they both will have a deductible. Generally speaking, both will split the cost of defense and settlement (if any).
It’s likely they will both drop you because of the failure to disclose your other activities (otherwise, why have two policies), and that means moving forward the two best policies for you are no longer available, causing your insurance cost component to rise relative to the value received.
While separate entities could potentially accomplish the same, there’s a few nuances that are difficult to overcome, especially when it comes to “one man/lady bands” where the owner is going to get named in the suit as well as the entities. But then there’s the whole issue of piercing the corporate veil which is generally relatively pretty easy to do with the small operators.
In a nutshell, if you can’t do it “right” maybe you shouldn’t do it that way. Not if you want to build a long-term business asset that you can leverage for retirement or sale in the future.
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I have a bias, albeit it’s not a surprise to me ADP won’t write it. Maybe that’s a good thing, ADP is one of your more expense options where you also generally won’t get the one-on-one personal service of a dedicated workers’ comp agent that knows your business.
Many Many Many businesses form separate entities to help them alleviate tax and insurance cost. What I stated can be done 100% legally. One Business is an LLC with General Liability and Workmens Comp… the other is a DBA with general liability ( You the owner are the only one performing the work under this name) and can be exempt from State Laws requiring workmens comp.
EX. If I started a landscaping business with a different name I would not use the same insurance policy…
If I started a snow plowing business with a different name I would not use the same insurance policy
If roof cleaning is a specialized service that I want to create a separate company for I would not use the same insurance policy or structure.
This is not actually what I do, although I have thought about it since I am the only one that does roof cleaning.
I would bet a lot of $$ that most people on here aren’t even working under the right classification WC code when doing roof cleaning. Or they just 1099 everybody
What you originally described was two businesses operating as a sole proprietorship and that’s what I was commenting on.
I fully agree that having separate LLCs (a different beast than sole proprietorship status) can be an effective means of tax liability mitigation. For insurance cost, it simply depends on the situation.
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For most of my clients, operating under the same entity, especially from an insurance perspective is the most cost efficient strategy.
This is especially true with landscaping and snow plowing, albeit as with most things in life “it depends” and isn’t exclusively the case. Of all my landscaping clients, I only have ever had one that didn’t combine snow removal with his operation. And in that case, he used two policies with the same entity (and that was short-lived for one season). Otherwise you have a logistical problem that includes transfering vehicles from one entity to another, way more accounting (two sets of books and tax returns vs. one set and one return), managing the separation to avoid a plaintiff from piercing the corporate veil, separate marketing, phone numbers, etc…
In other words, if you were my client and advised me that you wanted to expand into other services, especially complementary and “usual and customary” add ons, my proposal would almost certainly involve one general liability policy covering all aspects of your operation.
That doesn’t mean you couldn’t setup separate entities, it’s just not likely as cost efficient as having everything under one legal operation.
