I know this has been covered to death and I apologize but I can’t find the simple reason after researching a ton and I’m not one to ask without trying to find the answer myself.
I have always kept it simple and just assumed it was 10% even though I’m buying 12.5 whenever I use a pump up sprayer because what’s the point, 10% makes it so much easier to calculate anyways and no one knows exactly what it is when you pour. Who cares if your final result is 30% or 32%? I have a proportioner so I definitely don’t ever think about this stuff but…
Why is it wrong to say if you take 50/50 of 12.5 it is not the same as pouring straight 6%? What is the very simple explanation for this or a very simple formula that old burnouts can understand? The more I look into this the more I’m confused. Thanks.
edited: I’m not sure it’s wrong, lol. It could be true that 50/50 of 12.5 is the exact same as straight clorox. I didn’t think that was the case but maybe it is.
They say 12.5 stabilises to 6% over time and stays there, if that theory is true 6% should be 6% for quite some time on the shelves. Fresh 12.5 in most cases is stronger than 12.5 more like 15%. Higher percentage sh degrades quicker from what I’ve been told by suppliers. For me I use 12.5 because it’s just better bang for buck over time.
I have to disagree, all SH eventually degrades to it’s base components over time. How long does that take? Well, too many variables to give a short answer. Simply put, light, heat, and contaminates are the reasons it degrades faster. The stronger it is the faster it degrades.
I have done more than my share of due diligence regarding SH, but I am not a PW. SH strength at 12.5% depending on the time of year, is likely delivered to the warehouse/supplier at around 15% more or less, but usually over 12.5%. The reason for this is that the manufacturer’s know that it is degrading as soon as they make it. In summer they make it a little hotter because heat degrades it faster.
@MuscleMyHustle but In theory if they were the exact strength they claimed to be cutting 12.5 in half with water should be a bottle of Clorox?
Like @Patriotspwashing said above, it seems way stronger with a 50/50 of 12.5 then just Clorox but could be because of the reasons above with shelf life.
@Dirtyboy well let’s be a bit sensible here nothing lasts forever, if your stacking Sodium hypochlorite up to have a 3 years stash it’s not going to work for you, 10% degrades to about 6-7% during a 120 day period, In business terms this should be taken into consideration and the amount that you are likely to need, so really it doesn’t matter how much it degrades as you should be turning this stuff over according to workflow.
It works in theory but you can only assume it’s 12.5 as stated earlier if your buying bulk 12.5 it’s most likely higher if it’s fresh. So it might be 6% but it could also be higher or lower aswel. Like you said just assume 12.5 is 10% and stick to that. I’ve used that same theory for years never lost any sleep over percentages. For me dwell times are my measurement of strength.
Just an FYI, that chart is for SH stored in optimal conditions. That means 60 degree farenheit, no sunlight, no heat, with no contaminents in the container nor in the water it was mixed with. Once again, the stronger it is the faster it breaks down. Notably absent in most charts I have read are the breakdowns for 12.5-15% SH. A guesstimate wouldn’t be appropriate.
I agree with you that if you plan you should have it used before it starts breaking down significantly. My main point is that many people on this forum are small operators and they are not storing it in optimal conditions. In higher temperature regions who knows what % they are using by the time they empty the 55 gallon drum. For someone like me, I would have to take into consideration, when ordering, if it will come close to winter., because November to March is going to make it 6% or less (if stored optimally). There are other uses for it, but from a business perspective, calculations should be done otherwise it is money left on the table.
People on this forum, such as yourself, probably go through so much of it it isn’t really a concern. And if you did have a weak batch you could probably pump it up with your next delivery.
Once again, I’m no PW, just a guy trying to get started.
None of this is possible when storing on a truck. As stated above assume it’s 10% you won’t go wrong. Percentages are a waste of time and purely psychological. It makes me laugh when people try and target between 0.8 and 1.2 for that “optimal” industry standard of 1% without ever being able to know there actual sh strength or caring what the actual dwell time is telling them regarding there mix strength.
If you aren’t using a lot of sh, well all I can recommend is to find suppliers that can cater to what you actually need in smaller amounts that are near by, I buy mine every 2 weeks as I need it. Don’t forget old crappy sh makes great pre and post treat on concrete, it can always be used in a profitable manner.
Please understand that I don’t see myself arguing with you, so much as debating the shelf life of SH. I think some people take my commments as an attack, and not as they are intended as point/counterpoint discussions.
I have been jumping through hoops to get someone to sell me SH in drums, I’ve been on the phone with at least 4 chemical companies and many distributors. You would think someone would want the business, but they keep putting up barriers. The sales rep for the closest company wants to sell, the sales manager wants to sell, they say the VP and pres want more sales, but the local plant doesn’t. I hate to say it, but I think it is just lazy people using bureaucracy to keep themselves from having to work. Talked to a lady she went on for about 8 minutes about delivery options, then when I said OK I won’t pick it up deliver it, she then says we don’t deliver to residential addresses (even though I live in the boondocks). From that point on it was a contest of wills. They are making me pick up only one drum at a time, and they want a week+ notice ahead of time for future sales. Thats 2+ hours to get it and get home, what a PITA and it isn’t that much cheaper than buying at the store. Buck a gallon or so, delivery to a business address is $75 per delivery.
@MuscleMyHustle I completely agree, spending time analyzing this crap takes away from your business. Use 10% and be done with it and get a metering system. Move on to the other things that you need to focus on.
I only initially asked this question because a friend of mine across the country made the statement to me that straight clorox is the same as 50/50 12.5 and he got me thinking. He took straight clorox in a pump up sprayer and didn’t kill some stuff on his roof and I said his stuff was weak(like the ukraine). Very very simple math but got me over analyzing and thinking more was at play.
@Dirtyboy If you get a small shop all your problems are solved.
I doubt you’ll find one that will deliver to a residential address. Try and find a small locally owned hardware store who will accept delivery for you. I’m sure there are some farmers around you that could hook you up too. Molski has a good idea too. If I recall you already have an outbuilding. Once you register your business and address you now have a commercial location. You also have a tractor for unloader the drums. You’re a step ahead of most of us.
If I order at least two 55 gallon drums at a time my supplier doesn’t charge me shipping. It might be worth checking asking about. You can definitely negotiate. When I first contacted them they wanted to try and sell it to me at like $5 a gallon before they tried tacking on shipping. I can buy pool shock for $3 a gallon locally so I told them they’ll have to at least match that and they did. They only plus for me ordering it in drums is not having to worry about empty one gallon containers and it’s a lot hotter.
Towards the end of the season last year I found a local pool supply store that sells 55 gallon drums of SH for the same price as I’m paying the distributor. They supply a lot of the pool contractors and hotels with SH. Every other pool store only sells in one gallon containers so it’s the only one who deals with such large quantities. Be sure to call all of the pool stores in your area.
It is funny, my buddy has a pool business and I talked to his supplier, they don’t sell in large quantities (just a middle man anyway). That would have solved a lot of issues for me.
I had to have several deliveries to the greenhouse down the road for commercial deliveries. He and his wife are nice and have helped me out, but I will have to return the favor soon. He was eyeing up my PW when I had it delivered to his place. You get where I am going… dirty greenhouse, PW, me doing free work in return for deliveries to his place. I just didn’t want to bother him anymore. I would also like to make some money and not quid pro quo anymore. Ahh the life of a start up.
You are right though, I do have a pole building, a tractor, pallet forks, etc. so things could be more difficult. Had my PW working today, getting the “kinks” out. Had one fitting that just wouldn’t stop leaking no matter how many times I dissaassembled it and put it back together. Small leak, I can live with it (water line into top of tank).
