Paver Cleaning Experts

Good Morning

I’ve never done Paver cleaning but we got a lot of them down here in Texas and I don’t think I should stay away of them. Now here are some questions left, even after using the search.
I would use HW mix to get rid of moss and algae on the pavers and clean it with my SC afterwards.
Since its pretty hot here, I would wait some time for the pavers to get dry and than resand it.

What type of sand do you recommend?

  • Poly Sand
  • Silica sand 20/35
  • Klin dried sand (Which brand would you recommend?)

After resanding and if the client is asking for it, I would seal the pavers with Ure Seal H2O. I’m not quite sure about sealing yet but I still give it a thought since I somehow think that goes hand in hand with resanding.
Which additional tips could you give me? Some guys said they are using a wide turbo nozzle which I kind of want to stay away…

Only resand if you can make it profitable. Pavers are easy to clean but a pain to clean up the muddy mess you make cleaning them. For bad pavers I will use my 12v to pretreat then surface clean.

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Yeah I would offer resanding only as an addon service. I’m kinda worried about the mess if its a driveway since I probably have to contain the water/sand mix somehow to not get into the storm drain etc. I don’t have a 12v system yet so it will be either a DS mix or I have to use a pump up sprayer or similar. Do you lower your pressure of the SC for Pavers or do you hit it the same like regular concrete driveway?

I clean pavers all the time down here in FL. I downstream some SH and let it sit for a few minutes and then I go over it with the surface cleaner at a normal PSI. If they are super, super bad I’ll hit it with some roof mix first. If there is a lot of crap growing in between the pavers I will hit it with a turbo nozzle. As far as resanding goes, I’ve never had anyone ask for it. To the best of my knowledge you shouldn’t resand until it’s absolutely necessary. Too much sand is a bad thing because it encourages organic growth.

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I want to say @florida_condo_cleani talks about starting at the bottom using a surface cleaner. As you work your way up the sand redposits back into the joints below. If any sanding is needed it would only be a little bit at the top.

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If I were you I would look into poly sand, as long as your careful with moisture levels it will turn out fine. Also get a high viscosity pump sprayer to spray sealer with, it’ll save you forever and a day. One last thing to look into buying or renting is a plate compactor with a rubber guard for vibrating the sand deep into the joints. Dont use the plate compactor on pavers set in concrete or youll have an issue. One of the biggest things as many products differ in applications, read and do exactly as it specifies. Dont seal new pavers either, as you will most have cloudiness show up which is efflorescence. I think its after 12months then seal.

That’s a good tip and makes sense! Thanks!

I’m not yet sure about the sealing so this is still another thought. However, do you always have to use a plate compactor when resanding or do you have to do it only with sand that’s not that fine?

From my research it is recommended to compact the sand to insure tight joints.

I don’t have much experience with this, just what I have read that is agitates the sand into the joints and packs it in for a tight fit. This is not the same as tamping the pavers themselves. It is a bit more gentle but enough to work that sand.

Again, get with @florida_condo_cleani . From what I read on his post, he does a lot of this.

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You dont have to use the compactor , but you run the risk of settling and air pockets beneath which will allow the joints to crack easily. Thw compactor also resets the sand beneath the pavers aswell. Mason sand or poly sand is the only things you should use. Both have benefits and draw backs. You need to do a little studying on it and not just a couple posts. You also must be aware if the pavers had a prior sealer and if so water base or oil. The new sealer may not stick if you use the wrong thing. There is a product that you can apply to cause the differnt sealers work on top

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Great insights!

Yeah I’m reading a lot of posts and watch a lot of videos. Sometimes, due to the high amount, you see different techniques and how others are doing things and at the end you just got overwhelmed. You were the first one using the compactor plate that’s why I had to ask and see if you use it all the time. I just want to make sure I see a common line for certain things so that makes it easier to understand for me.

In the end choose a product and follow their directions, and dont hold back just do it, you can also buy a few bricks and when you buy the materials do a small trial run to get the feel.

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Keep in mind, like paint, you can put oil over water but never water over oil.

You can reseal with an oil (solvent) based sealer if water sealer was used before but never put water sealer over oil.

Always, always, always do a test. I usually only do about a quarter size dab. Home owners will often really not know what was used before even if they did it themselves. Just dealt with that this last week. Homeowner stated he used cheap water sealer on a patio. After stripping for 3 days got it ready for oil sealer. Home owner asked me to spot paint a few things. Go to his closet to look for the paint and sure enough, not water based sealer but a penetrating polyurethane sealer. Now I know what the “water based” sealer was so hard to get off…

I believe it’s the opposite. You can put water based over oil based but not oil based over water based. There are ways it can be done with paint but it’s a more involved process.

I’m not sure about concrete sealer. It may be different but I would assume it’s the same as far as water over oil or vice versa.

No, you can go over latex with oil but not the other way around because oils surface is slick and latex doesn’t tend to stick to it. a lot of the new latex acrylic paints are designed to go over oil if the surface is scuffed first. The epa has waged war against oil based products.

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A lot of what you read says it’s the opposite unless they’re just referring to specifically latex paint. You just have to properly prepare it by scuffing and priming.

As stated, you can only put oil on top of latex.

If you put latex on top of oil (without prep), it will only dry on the surface. This will lead to peeling, nicks and just a crappy look. This is in response to painting.

If you want to put latex over oil here is what you need to do:

  1. Clean the surface - use TSP or really anything to clean it.
  2. “Degloss” the surface - you can use liquid sandpaper or real sandpaper. Basically you have to get the surface layer off the oil paint.
  3. Clean the surface again.
  4. Paint with latex.

When it comes to sealers, you can just apply an oil or solvent based sealer over a water based without any real prep. If you go the other way with water over oil sealer you will end up with a nice mess. Have fun with that…

Cheers!

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As I’ve said I’ve always heard the opposite. (which obviously doesn’t mean I’m right or even know because I honestly don’t. Just going by what I’ve read in the past) I’m not doubting you at all I just like knowledge. I’m open minded and like to learn. I’m also asking you because you have a lot of knowledge on different subjects and I respect your opinion. I researched years back when I was painting latex over oil and that’s just what I’ve always gone by. I didn’t use tsp but scuffed and painted. I kind of remember priming with oil based primer first but can’t remember for sure. We lived in that house for about 8 years and it was fine when we sold it but I scuffed and took the gloss off. I’m sure if primer was recommended I used it.

I just googled and there’s a lot of contradicting info out there both ways. Most seems to say latex over oil is fine if properly prepped. (as you stated) Some say you can do oil over latex and even more say you can’t unless you first prime with a sealer. Others say only on the interior as the exterior expand and contract at different rates causing the latex underneath to wrinkle and the oil based to come up. Some say that will happen regardless of interior or exterior.

Now I’m even more confused. :crazy_face: I wonder if there are so many varying opinions because different paint manufacturers have always recommended different ways depending on their ingredients? Maybe it also has to do with climate so different areas of the country have different opinions? I guess in the near future it won’t really matter since they will all be banned.

Now about concrete sealers. I know how to tell the difference between oil based and water based stain thanks to @MDA1775 How do you go about telling the difference between oil or water based concrete sealers?

As I’ve said I’ve always heard the opposite. (which obviously doesn’t mean I’m right or even know because I honestly don’t. Just going by what I’ve read in the past) I’m not doubting you at all I just like knowledge. I’m open minded and like to learn. I researched years back when I was painting latex over oil and that’s just what I’ve always gone by. I didn’t use tsp but scuffed and painted. I kind of remember priming with oil based primer first but can’t remember for sure. We lived in that house for about 8 years and it was fine when we sold it but I scuffed and took the gloss off. I’m sure if primer was recommended I used it.

You can put oil on top of “Failed water based” for that is has to be very porous and oxidized. I did several like that in 2016 using Wood Defender Semi-transparent Cumberland Brown and they still look good today. I did tests to ensure it would work and a penetrating stain is not the same as oil based paint. Oil based paint does penetrate some but still sits mostly on top. Water based penetrates some too though. They both use a different means to adhere than penetrating stain does.

I just googled and there’s a lot of contradicting info out there both ways. Most seems to say latex over oil is fine if properly prepped. (as you stated) Some say you can do oil over latex and even more say you can’t unless you first prime with a sealer. Others say only on the interior as the exterior expand and contract at different rates causing the latex underneath to wrinkle and the oil based to come up. Some say that will happen regardless of interior or exterior.

Paints cure differently that stains. As a paint cures it contracts and that’s why the prep is so important. If the surface isn’t properly prepped the paint will literally pull itself off what ever it underneath it.

This again goes back to the penetrating oil verses paint, they just don’t work the same way. That said I did a fence in Sherwin Williams oil based Super Deck last year and it looked like crap. I ended up stripping the fence using DSR-50 (potassium hydroxide) from Power Wash.com and then repainting with Super Deck solid. I still wasn’t happy with it when I was finished but I drove by there a week later after everything settled in and it looked great. In fact the guy hired me to do the deck at his office for another 2k+

Now I’m even more confused. :crazy_face:I wonder if there are so many varying opinions because different paint manufacturers have always recommended different ways depending on their ingredients? Maybe it also has to do with climate so different areas of the country have different opinions? I guess in the near future it won’t really matter since they will all be banned.

Now about concrete sealers. I know how to tell the difference between oil based and water based stain thanks to @MDA1775 How do you go about telling the difference between oil or water based concrete sealers?

In my limited experience with sealers are more of solvent verses water based issue. Both are carriers to get the sealer into the concrete. I’m having very good results with SEK Sure Bond Sealers
BTW, everything I have stated is as it relates to exterior wood applications not interior or exterior house painting.

Both of you are right - and -wrong .
There are a lot of factors that determine coating application, too many to list.
As a rule surface prep is vitally important and how you achieve adhesion varies surface to surface and coating to coating.

One method to test water based coating vs oil based is a solvent rub test.
Most water based coating will be dissolved by a solvent such as methylated spirits.
I use the rub test to help determine curing of two pack paints with methyl ethyl ketone.(astm d4752)